Editor’s Note: The following story was first posted October 13, 2013. After the story appeared, County Attorney Dylan Reingold told Inside Vero he and County Administrator, Joe Baird, did not indend to prevent the Indian River County Taxpayers’ Association from using the logo of Indian River County government.
Florida Statutes: Section 165.043. Official county or municipal seal.
The governing body of a county or municipality may, by ordinance, designate an official county or municipal seal. The manufacture, use, display, or other employment of any facsimile or reproduction of the county or municipal seal, except by county or municipal officials or employees in the performance of their official duties, without the express approval of the governing body is a second degree misdemeanor, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
Does the Taxpayers’ Association have County Commission’s seal of approval?
MARK SCHUMANN
Visitors to the Taxpayers’ Association of Indian River County website might reasonably conclude the association has the Indian River County Commission’s seal of approval, for the TPA uses the official seal of Indian River County, not only on its website, but also on a generic business card outlining its mission.
Presented with the seal (logo) of Indian River County, the TPA’s description of its role as an “ombudsman” might lead some to conclude the group is sanctioned by the County Commission. A common definition of an ombudsman is that of a commissioner who acts as an independent referee between individual citizens and their government.
Recently, the County Commission voted 5-0 to act on a proposal by Glenn Heran, former president of the Taxpayers’ Association of Indian River County, to hire a Tallahassee lobbying firm to work through the Legislature to bring pressure to bear on the Florida Municipal Power Agency. For the sale of Vero Electric to go forward, a deal must be reached with the FMPA that will enable the City to shed its commitments to three FMPA power projects as well as to the FMPA All Requirements Project.
In addition to committing to paying a Tallahassee lobbying firm $78,000 in the coming year, the Commission also agreed to pay travel expenses for Heran, should he need to go to Tallahassee to assist the County’s new lobbyist. See also: What is the mission of the Taxpayer’s Association?
Indian River Guardian 
Where in the County charter does it authorize the payment of funds to an individual or organization for the purposes of lobbying?
Sorry Mark but that is not the official county seal the official county seal is an elk and not what you depicted. So to answer your question no there is not a violation of law.
Mark that is not the official county seal so to answer your question I would say taxpayers association is not violating the law. The official county seal is an Elks head.
The seal being used by the County on its official documents, (I would refer you to the current County Commission meeting agenda) is the very same seal being used by the Taxpayers’ Association of Indian River County.
Again, Gary, the seal which the County used on its website and printed documents is the same seal the Taxpayer’s Association uses on it printed documents and website. The very Taxpayers’ Association that has appropriated the County’s seal/logo, call it what you want, is the very same organization arguing that County government should be run like a business. Any business in the County’s position would move against the Taxpayers’ Association for trademark infringement.
Mark about five or six years ago we tried to make that symbol the official county seal it was voted down on a 3 to2 vote to leave the county seal as an elk. Wesley Davis led the charge for that. One to my knowledge that is not the county seal, two I don’t believe it is trademarked. I am surprised the county attorney or administrator did not explain that to you.
I’ll look into your points, Gary. The larger point, though, is that the Taxpayers’ Association, through its use of the term “ombudsman” and through its appropriation of the seal/logo used by the Indian River County Commission, is creating the impression that it is affiliated with and/or sanctioned by County government.
By appropriating the seal/logo which the County has long used on its printed documents, the Taxpayers’ Association is creating confusion in the marketplace, and is clearly seeking to benefit from the likely presumption of official status to be conferred upon any organization using the same seal/logo that is widely used on Indian River County government documents.
Many companies and political ads and others try to use things to their advantage to make their point and get The most attention they can get from it. Also you are now changing the question “is it illegal “to the larger point”my comment was that I don’t believe it’s illegal you are trying to change the argument now to promote your apparent disagreement with the taxpayers association. I was simply responding to your headline question is it illegal, let’s stay on subject.
As to your point, we simply raised the question. Interestingly enough, the attorney who located the relevant statute assumed, as did we, the the seal being used by the County is its official seal. Neither you nor I are attorneys, but we will get an answer. Many business do not, as you claim, get away with intentionally seeking to create confusion in the minds of consumers, as the TPA is clearly attempting to do. I called the County Commission offices and asked one of the commissioner’s assistants about the County seal. She said, “You mean the one with the oranges?” Clearly, Gary, if this is not the “official” County seal, is it, as least, assumed by even County employees to be just that.
You are correct the seal “” being used by the county is the official seal. the logo of the grapefruit is nothing but a logo that is not trademarked and I would think could be used by anyone and I disagree with you about businesses advertising scruples, they get away with it all the time. Seen an infomercial lately? PS the official seal is what they stamp official documents with and that is an elk not the grapefruit. Sorry Charlie (that’s Charlie the tuna not Charlie Wilson).
Your is the perspective of someone with a lot more experience is government than in marketing.
If I don’t have any experience in marketing how did I get elected how did I run a business I may not know anything about marketing but I’ve done fairly well.
You are referring to politics and campaigning skills, not marketing. Would you have been ok with another donut shop using the Tast’y O Donut logo or even something close to it. Whether it is the County seal or the County logo the Taxpayers’s Association is using, the point is that they are using a visual image associated with Indian River County government.
The real Point is if I did not trademark tasty-o and it was only my logo I have no legal ability to stop them from using it you are trying to turn A question about legality into what’s morally right or wrong in your opinion
I.e. You said in your article, quote in apparent violation of Florida statutes the taxpayers association of Indian River County may be violating the law. Then in editors note, you said and I quote Joe Baird did not intend to enforce the county’s legal right to restrict the use of its own official seal provided for in Florida statute 165.043. So you have gone from an apparent violation which indicates in your mind and in the readers mind it is illegal even though you use the word apparent and then you go on in the article to convict the taxpayers association of something that you are completely wrong about and that is, the statement “the official seal”. You have never been talking about the official seal you have been talking about a logo and calling it the official seal.
Assuming I am right and you are wrong Will you print the correct story pointing out that the taxpayers association was not in violation of the Florida statute? Because in my opinion A real journalist by today’s standards would not print the correction. The truth doesn’t often create the interest that rumors gossip and accusations create.
By The Way Mark, on a positive note. I commend you for having people when they blog use their e-mail and real name. All publications should in my onion require that. If they did there would be less cowardly, nasty hateful comments made in blogs. Cowards Love to hide behind anonymity.
Thank you for That
While serving on the board of the Taxpayers Association, I was the editor of the Ombudsman for five years and in that period of time the TPA had a logo which I still have stashed somewhere in my computer. I agree with what you wrote in a previous article Mark about the fact that many of the long time members of the Taxpayers Association of Indian River County have dropped out because the message from TPA seems to have shifted….They are now more political than what was accepted in the past. The TPA was known to be the watchdog of the monies in the county and they certainly have strayed.
In fact, I remember when my dear friend, the late Jim Granse, placed a letter to the editor endorsing Gary Wheeler for Sheriff and a special board meeting of the TPA was called to chastise him because…..shame on you Jim Granse, the TPA is not to be political.
Gary, we are working on a story explaining the difference between the County seal and the County logo. It is, in fact, the County logo which the Taxpayers’ Association has appropriated for its own use.
The how, when and why the County Commission in 2008 chose not to adopt its logo as its seal, but instead stayed with the seal of an elk, which it more or less inherited from St. Lucie County, makes for an interesting story.
There is another question about whether government logos are in the public domain, or whether they can be protected by copyright.
I still return to the question of the TPA’s intention in using the County logo, while at the same time claiming to fill an ombudsman role.
I’ll be, I agree with Bea on this one Although the only time I recall the Tax payers Asso. as an asso. endorsing anyone was Ken Miller. The TPA has and should be issued driven and not candidate driven.
Shame on you Bea for nocking Jim Granse when he unfortunately is no longer with us to defend himself. What a good man he was. I miss him.
Getting back to the article Mark….The Taxpayers Association has a ton of money sitting in their bank account so…why don’t they spend some of it to pay a professional to design a new logo for themselves rather than plagiarize from the County, especially since it appears they do not want to use the old logo.
I think InsideVero was correct to point to the logo/branding County Seal look of the Taxpayers Association as something that might be a bit confusing to some of us in the community. It might actually make some folks think the TPA is an arm of the County and that is not the case.
All of the arguing you get from a reader who does not even live in this county anymore is wasted ink, but then again, I guess he wants to be heard. Keep doing this kind of reporting Mark…this community needs it.
And, by the way I just had dinner on Sunday with Jim Granse’s window Dorothy and Jimmy Jr. and his wife Jen and I did not knock (nock) him. I miss him too, very much. He was the closest thing to a father I have ever had since my real father died when I was only 14 years old.
Ye gads! What a lot of who struck John.
The Taxpayer’s association is thriving, it’s membership is constantly growing and the monthly speakers are usually individuals/administrators/constitutional officers etc. reporting on issues of interest to the membership. Last we had Baird, Brown and Boling. It was terrific and informative.
Negativity, accusations, rumors, name calling, vindictiveness etc. is a bore. Is professional counseling in order?
Positive thinking, being upbeat, striving to accomplish, challenges, looking at the bright/good side, compassion, persistence, trust/honesty/faith, WOW, what a way to go.
You all need to stop digging.
I don’t give a rats ass who the monthly speakers at the TPA are. It is pretending to be an arm–make that finger–of our county government, using a symbol on its website or whatever that is right there on the wall behind the Co. Commissioners dais. Maybe we need to take another look at paying Mr. Heran or any lobbyist to lobby in Tallahassee. Maybe he felt the power coursing through his veins and he felt he could do no wrong. Whatever it is, resolve this. If it stands, there will be lots of us misusing this 3-orange logo as our own…..
Again a mountain out of a molehill. Where’s the civility? What’s next?
You, Rosemarie B. Wilson, have a lot of nerved calling for civility.